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[Music]

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and good afternoon from Philadelphia

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Frank here with a first edition of UFO

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news network Sunday for the year 2020 so

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we're all set to go let me bring in my

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co-host Chan Hanna to introduce our

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special guest for the show today oh hi

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Frank thank you so much for introducing

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me we have a very special guest I have

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had the privilege and honor of

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interviewing before it was last year the

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Phoenix lights event that dr. linkage by

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folds annually in Phoenix Arizona and

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that is Jonathan Dover a veteran law

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enforcement officer he worked for the

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city of Winslow Arizona Police

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Department in national park service the

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Navajo historic preservation department

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and the Navajo Nation Rangers he retired

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from active duty as lieutenant in 2011

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and worked for 31 years as a law

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enforcement officer he was an

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archaeological resource Prime's

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investigator he was also trained in

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Criminal Investigations as an emergency

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medical technician in special weapons

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and tactics operations hazardous shirt's

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search and rescue which included

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training and I in high-angle technical

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rescue I was an instructor and police

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firearms during his work on abajo lands

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he along with stamping Alfred jr. were

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signed over a period of 10 years to

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officially investigate in document

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significant cases involving the fallen

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topic of Bigfoot Navajo witchcraft the

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paranormal and UFOs skinwalkers and

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ghosts this was the special projects

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area picked over in Milford vanish

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regarding cases that are deemed critical

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sensitive or high-profile in nature

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raging from priority investigations to

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dignitary protection in high-risk detail

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to emergency operations welcome John to

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our show before we embark on the

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interview I wanted to give a little bit

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of background information that you have

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already shared publicly at various UFO

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conferences

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around the United States and that way

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our listeners are familiar with a little

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bit regarding what you do and where you

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have done your investigations and that

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is in the Navajo Nation covers 27,000

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square miles that's the size of West

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Virginia those 17 million acres is what

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you travel through regarding areas to

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Versailles to from Flagstaff Arizona to

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Albuquerque New Mexico which is four

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hours of traveling if all the roads are

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in bits edition of which they are not

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the largest portion of the reservation

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is in Utah Arizona and New Mexico the

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Navajo Nation is largest Native American

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reservation in the US and older

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statistic reveals that the Navajo

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Nation's population was confirmed at

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nearly 360,000 the Navajo Nation is

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comprised of around 110 chapters which

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are the center of the local community

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government the Navajo Nation has owned

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president and BP with twenty four

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council members is a crackpot

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that's correct okay great the first

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question I have for you is growing up on

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the Navajo Nation's as a child before

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entered law enforcement did you see

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anything or witness anything of the

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we spent our summers on the Navajo

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Reservation and during that time we

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didn't have one incident where we saw a

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red or that was pretty much drifting

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through the trees it cost as we're this

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is about two o'clock in the morning and

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we're already getting on the road

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because it takes us an hour to get down

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off of the Carrizo mountains and as

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we're driving out my grandfather and

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grandmother were sitting up front I was

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sitting up front between them I was

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probably junior high age and this

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light is just going through the trees

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weaving back and forth and my

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grandfather wanted to grab his 30-30

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rifle and shoot it isn't my grandmother

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kept telling him don't you dare you know

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that's and she was saying that that was

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a skinwalker and at the time i had no

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idea what it was it was just weird you

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can see the red light shining on the

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ground and it went up the hill weaving

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back and forth through the trees now

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where it went up the hill I've done a

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lot of sheep herding up in there and I

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know that there's no roads there's no

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trails nothing to go on there and so

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that was kind of I guess a glimpse into

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Walker's a topic that goes back hundreds

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of years

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I'm guessing regarding Native American

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lore and also just communicating that

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topic throughout the generations

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I wanted to know when was the first time

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he heard of that topic did your family

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share that topic with you and how far

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does it go back within the Native

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American culture it that topic actually

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goes back even that I would say back to

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the 1700s it's always been known about

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nobody talks about it me and Stan are

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not the experts within this field we're

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just the only two that would talk about

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it and I have to be very careful as to

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what I talk about in one case we

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finished speaking about that subject

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the very next weekend

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we had nine near intersection or head-on

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collisions involving both our families

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which is a real unusual activity that

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would take place so it's actually pretty

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dangerous you can you could actually be

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killed just just talking about this

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subject okay so again what I'm gonna do

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is I'm gonna I'm gonna let you know the

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next question I had but I'm not gonna

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I'm not going to ask you to answer it

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okay because it was related to that

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topic but I'm still gonna I'm gonna I'm

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gonna share it with you anyway even

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though we don't need to talk about it so

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the next question I was going to ask you

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as you stated Utah was carted for

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charity regarding the investigations

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that you managed with Milford jr. so

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Bigelow as we know research project

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going on it in Walker Ranch in Utah it

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his project that's in Walker Ranch ever

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intersect with your research of the

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skinwalker phenomena was what I was

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about to ask people they can move on to

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other topics actually it did we were

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conducting an investigation at a place

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called Satanist Butte and that had a lot

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of similarities to what they were

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experiencing skinwalker ranch or and

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what we thought was interesting is that

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both of those locations are on the exact

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same longitude so there is a geographic

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connection with that tear under state

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and just one small thing you cut out

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right when he said it was called Satan's

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what was that

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Satan's Butte oh okay by the way did you

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ever go near Elephant Butte at all or go

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across that area place called elephant's

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feet that's north of Tuba City I've been

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pretty much all over the

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reservation doing investigations I've

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had a chance to see quite a bit of it

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okay I was just asking because there was

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a famous case of a serial killer who was

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on the top ten list of sadist sadistic

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serial killers of all time and he was

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residing in Elephant Butte which is in

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New Mexico as you know and his name was

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David Parker ray I was just curious if

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you ever came across anything at

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Elephant Butte that was interesting to

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you okay I wanted to ask you what are

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the percentage of cases that were

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resolved between yourself and Wilford or

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just yourself regarding the special

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cases was or are they still open what

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what are what's the status of Hope Oh a

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lot of those cases were what we call

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administrative and closed we're talking

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over a period of ten years and these are

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kind of like the major cases other

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Rangers had involved the lesser cases so

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they were all being investigated but for

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the major cases I would say that there

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were probably about 80 okay okay

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and percentage-wise yeah there wasn't

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there wasn't a whole lot of them that

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were solved we did manage to solve one

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that I can actually relate and in this

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case we had a a woman

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who was she had come back from from

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family out in San Francisco in

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California and she moved back because

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she inherited some land and that land

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had a Hogan on it and she's living on a

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border town so it sits right on the

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reservation line before you get to the

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town she started experiencing bundles

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left on on her area there the hold on

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itself had broken windows no door on it

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the roof was needing a repair and after

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she moved back she started seeing what

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she called skinwalker activity she

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contacted the State Police the county

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the city even the Navajo police nobody

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wanted to take her case and we went out

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there and did the investigation and me

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and Stan started tracking that area as

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we tracked it we observed that there

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were at least six individuals that were

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walking around on the trail behind her

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place so you know what we ended up

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determining was that these guys were

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actually a bunch of transients that had

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been using her Hogan as a place to stay

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during the wintertime or inclement

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weather and they would go to town excuse

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me they would go to town and they would

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buy their alcohol and go back there and

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drink it and they'd have a nice place to

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you know even with no windows and door

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it was a place to sleep and get in out

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of the weather so after we told her this

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she we told her somebody's mimicking

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what you would see and we didn't hear

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anything more from her after that couple

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months later she called our department

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and she was in tears and she told us

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that nobody else would listen to me

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everybody just you know cast me off and

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because you guys came out there and did

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the investigation and found out that it

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was a fraud then because of that she

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says my house is fixed up and I'm not

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having any visitations anymore and she

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just wanted to call the dankus I see so

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regarding the code all the cases you and

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Stan had in their totality would you say

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that

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aside from prosaic you know ordinary

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explanations that there was some a high

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percentage a certain percentage of an

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unknown natural phenomenon or a familiar

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phenomenon in in a lot of our cases we

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closed them administrative leave but

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they remain open with no explanation

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we've had a lot of UFO cases those cases

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after I mean a lot of them are just fly

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overs or flybys is what we classify them

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is a bunch of people see lights in the

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sky they take photographs they have some

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type of documentary evidence rather than

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that there's there's really nothing

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we've seen unknown craft on our own and

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on numerous occasions and we have no

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explanation for them tell us a little

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bit more about that John the young

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crafts that you saw yourself well we've

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I've seen cigar-shaped craft that was

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probably about maybe 200 yards long

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flying very very low maybe about a

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hundred feet over over the landscape in

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the middle of the night this thing had

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one almost like a spotlight but it was a

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collimated beam is what I would call it

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almost like a laser where it was shining

274
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down white but it didn't diffuse as it

275
00:16:57,900 --> 00:16:54,160
was flying it had a really heavy engine

276
00:17:02,250 --> 00:16:57,910
sound you know just like a an engine

277
00:17:04,770 --> 00:17:02,260
that's really you know like you would

278
00:17:10,770 --> 00:17:04,780
you would think of with a train engine

279
00:17:14,310 --> 00:17:10,780
or a ship engine we've seen gifts we see

280
00:17:16,770 --> 00:17:14,320
in orbs I've had one follow me for for

281
00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:16,780
about 40 minutes while I was on the

282
00:17:25,910 --> 00:17:20,890
highway it was a green orb that followed

283
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:25,920
me between Indian Wells all the way to

284
00:17:34,380 --> 00:17:30,010
pass deep route 87 junction in route 15

285
00:17:36,300 --> 00:17:34,390
and that one was following behind my

286
00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:36,310
vehicle for about half of the way and

287
00:17:44,850 --> 00:17:39,850
then veered off or over the landscape

288
00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:44,860
over the fencing and started going along

289
00:17:52,050 --> 00:17:48,490
the Mesa tops and it turned from green

290
00:17:56,070 --> 00:17:52,060
to red and really gave me an uneasy

291
00:17:58,620 --> 00:17:56,080
feeling at that time this was about two

292
00:18:01,830 --> 00:17:58,630
o'clock in the morning coming back from

293
00:18:04,050 --> 00:18:01,840
a Bigfoot investigation now did you

294
00:18:05,940 --> 00:18:04,060
follow up on that to see if either it

295
00:18:07,710 --> 00:18:05,950
was some kind of a unknown or

296
00:18:10,860 --> 00:18:07,720
experimental aircraft or anything like

297
00:18:13,340 --> 00:18:10,870
that or did you just kind of let it go

298
00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:13,350
I just want to let it go this thing and

299
00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:15,850
it couldn't have been an experimental

300
00:18:22,110 --> 00:18:19,330
aircraft because it was maybe about four

301
00:18:25,010 --> 00:18:22,120
feet off the ground following me you can

302
00:18:29,010 --> 00:18:25,020
see the the green light underneath it

303
00:18:31,470 --> 00:18:29,020
and it was totally silent and when it

304
00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:31,480
went off of the road out across the

305
00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:35,890
landscape it again there's there's no

306
00:18:41,270 --> 00:18:37,810
roads where it went it just made a

307
00:18:46,860 --> 00:18:41,280
straight line that where the mesas are

308
00:18:48,660 --> 00:18:46,870
so that one was was very strange the of

309
00:18:52,890 --> 00:18:48,670
course the night before the Phoenix

310
00:18:56,430 --> 00:18:52,900
lights being my family saw a bunch of

311
00:18:59,280 --> 00:18:56,440
lights circling Luke and these were

312
00:19:00,860 --> 00:18:59,290
about seven seven lights that were

313
00:19:03,630 --> 00:19:00,870
circling in a counterclockwise direction

314
00:19:06,210 --> 00:19:03,640
around our community

315
00:19:11,540 --> 00:19:06,220
they were seen from Cameron from to the

316
00:19:15,390 --> 00:19:11,550
city from coal mine Mesa from the Hopi

317
00:19:20,490 --> 00:19:15,400
villages all the way around the bell

318
00:19:22,140 --> 00:19:20,500
calm and even down toward Winslow okay

319
00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:22,150
and now for the foot out for the folks

320
00:19:26,940 --> 00:19:24,250
we've got listeners all around the world

321
00:19:30,330 --> 00:19:26,950
might not be familiar with the geography

322
00:19:33,450 --> 00:19:30,340
there where where do these things take

323
00:19:40,290 --> 00:19:33,460
place relative to Phoenix are you north

324
00:19:43,620 --> 00:19:40,300
or this is from Flagstaff Arizona

325
00:19:48,590 --> 00:19:43,630
these are all northeast of there about

326
00:19:54,090 --> 00:19:48,600
50 miles and all those areas are about

327
00:19:58,380 --> 00:19:54,100
50 to 70 miles away from I'd say about

328
00:20:02,340 --> 00:19:58,390
50 miles away from from from Luke where

329
00:20:06,750 --> 00:20:02,350
I live and we watch these things

330
00:20:10,490 --> 00:20:06,760
circling for about 30 to 40 minutes it

331
00:20:13,170 --> 00:20:10,500
it was a whole community thing I mean

332
00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:13,180
people who are actually taking turning

333
00:20:18,060 --> 00:20:15,370
out the lights of their houses bringing

334
00:20:19,770 --> 00:20:18,070
lawn chairs out and sitting there in a

335
00:20:21,940 --> 00:20:19,780
talking about these things flying around

336
00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:21,950
us

337
00:20:28,630 --> 00:20:26,450
and we thought that the video cameras

338
00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:28,640
the press everybody else is going to be

339
00:20:36,430 --> 00:20:33,650
up there just floating our community the

340
00:20:39,430 --> 00:20:36,440
very next day and the very next day the

341
00:20:44,620 --> 00:20:39,440
Phoenix lights took place and just kind

342
00:20:48,580 --> 00:20:44,630
of totally eclipsed all the information

343
00:20:50,290 --> 00:20:48,590
of what we saw up there did you get any

344
00:20:53,700 --> 00:20:50,300
video or photographs or anything like

345
00:20:57,400 --> 00:20:53,710
that would that your folks saw up there

346
00:21:02,740 --> 00:20:57,410
yeah I actually had a video camera on a

347
00:21:07,750 --> 00:21:02,750
tripod i videotaped it for as long as I

348
00:21:12,220 --> 00:21:07,760
could and at the end of that two weeks

349
00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:12,230
later a guy named Greg showed up

350
00:21:19,630 --> 00:21:14,930
from he said he was from Grant's New

351
00:21:23,770 --> 00:21:19,640
Mexico and he asked me if he could have

352
00:21:28,030 --> 00:21:23,780
the videotape to do a scientific

353
00:21:29,650 --> 00:21:28,040
analysis he disappeared you know law

354
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:29,660
enforcement officer you're trying to be

355
00:21:34,690 --> 00:21:33,050
helpful and I said sure you know he

356
00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:34,700
disappeared with the tape and I never

357
00:21:42,310 --> 00:21:38,290
saw it again I did have a copy of it and

358
00:21:47,620 --> 00:21:42,320
that copy has since disappeared or been

359
00:21:52,180 --> 00:21:47,630
destroyed so it can't really can't

360
00:21:54,610 --> 00:21:52,190
really go back there I did call it to

361
00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:54,620
the County Sheriff's Department that

362
00:22:00,370 --> 00:21:57,170
night and asked them if they had anybody

363
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:00,380
on the north end from Flagstaff that

364
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:02,330
could verify something that I was seeing

365
00:22:10,150 --> 00:22:05,690
and the dispatcher says no we don't have

366
00:22:14,050 --> 00:22:10,160
any officers you know where what's your

367
00:22:17,170 --> 00:22:14,060
what's your traffic and I just at that

368
00:22:18,700 --> 00:22:17,180
time we weren't investigating these

369
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:18,710
things all those these things were

370
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:21,890
happening all the time so I just said

371
00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:28,010
never mind now I'm guessing that this is

372
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:31,970
a more rural area and that way the law

373
00:22:35,060 --> 00:22:33,090
enforcement is

374
00:22:36,710 --> 00:22:35,070
generally a Sheriff's Department but a

375
00:22:38,270 --> 00:22:36,720
lot of these towns are small enough they

376
00:22:41,570 --> 00:22:38,280
don't have their own Police Department's

377
00:22:47,530 --> 00:22:41,580
is that about right that's right the the

378
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:47,540
Navajo Reservation approximately 400

379
00:22:56,930 --> 00:22:52,050
police officers in seven police

380
00:23:02,180 --> 00:22:56,940
districts across you know that land the

381
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:02,190
Naville Rangers at the time we had 15 so

382
00:23:08,830 --> 00:23:04,170
we were basically uniformed criminal

383
00:23:12,740 --> 00:23:08,840
investigators the county does not really

384
00:23:15,950 --> 00:23:12,750
have officers stationed to respond up on

385
00:23:18,020 --> 00:23:15,960
the reservation unless it involves an

386
00:23:22,430 --> 00:23:18,030
Anglo that a crimes been committed

387
00:23:26,300 --> 00:23:22,440
against so there's there's what they

388
00:23:28,220 --> 00:23:26,310
call concurrent jurisdiction but for the

389
00:23:30,860 --> 00:23:28,230
most part we don't see too much of

390
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:30,870
County well that's a pretty good-sized

391
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:34,410
crew 400 I now near where I live in

392
00:23:40,580 --> 00:23:36,690
suburban Philadelphia you might have a

393
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:40,590
course of I don't know 75 or 80 police

394
00:23:45,980 --> 00:23:43,410
officers for a town or maybe us you know

395
00:23:48,650 --> 00:23:45,990
a good sized Township like 15,000 people

396
00:23:55,250 --> 00:23:48,660
so what's that what's the population

397
00:23:58,990 --> 00:23:55,260
that those 400 officers cover cover the

398
00:24:04,160 --> 00:23:59,000
entire Navajo Nation 27,000 square miles

399
00:24:05,570 --> 00:24:04,170
so there's seven major cities on the

400
00:24:08,900 --> 00:24:05,580
reservation and that's where those

401
00:24:12,410 --> 00:24:08,910
officers are based out of like I said

402
00:24:15,830 --> 00:24:12,420
for the Rangers we only had 15 so we

403
00:24:23,690 --> 00:24:15,840
were very very small and we just looked

404
00:24:30,230 --> 00:24:26,840
J okay yes yeah I wouldn't wanted to

405
00:24:35,750 --> 00:24:30,240
actually ask was it appears as though

406
00:24:39,610 --> 00:24:35,760
the UFO phenomenon can materialize and

407
00:24:43,550 --> 00:24:39,620
dematerialize and it says if it's

408
00:24:47,570 --> 00:24:43,560
involved in possibly other real

409
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:47,580
realities are dimensions that exist

410
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:53,250
along with art so want to know what is

411
00:25:06,010 --> 00:24:56,690
your hypothesis burgundy flow phenomena

412
00:25:09,860 --> 00:25:06,020
what is it in 2012

413
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:09,870
we spoke at the International UFO

414
00:25:22,100 --> 00:25:15,530
Congress and down in near Phoenix and

415
00:25:24,140 --> 00:25:22,110
during that time we hypothesize that a

416
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:24,150
lot of these cases in our estimation

417
00:25:34,460 --> 00:25:28,850
were related to string theory the idea

418
00:25:38,930 --> 00:25:34,470
of other dimensions either parallel

419
00:25:45,110 --> 00:25:38,940
dimensions that were coexisting with

420
00:25:47,420 --> 00:25:45,120
ours that these dimensions could could

421
00:25:54,620 --> 00:25:47,430
be an infinite number there could be you

422
00:25:58,970 --> 00:25:54,630
know 10 or 12 nobody really knows and at

423
00:26:01,070 --> 00:25:58,980
the time we were the probably the only

424
00:26:05,210 --> 00:26:01,080
ones that were speaking about this

425
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:05,220
subject and we brought in we were able

426
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:08,250
to link up the idea of hauntings and

427
00:26:19,250 --> 00:26:13,650
ghosts the idea of the skinwalker

428
00:26:22,310 --> 00:26:19,260
traveling at incredible speeds and being

429
00:26:27,820 --> 00:26:22,320
able to run as fast as vehicles could

430
00:26:33,090 --> 00:26:27,830
drive and the idea that big Bigfoot

431
00:26:36,909 --> 00:26:33,100
would suddenly appear and then disappear

432
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:36,919
we've chopped him both directions we've

433
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:40,369
trapped him from where he came to where

434
00:26:49,090 --> 00:26:44,570
he went and stopped and in both cases

435
00:26:51,729 --> 00:26:49,100
when we're tracking the footprints the

436
00:26:55,149 --> 00:26:51,739
tracks would just appear in trackable

437
00:26:57,940 --> 00:26:55,159
ground and they would disappear also in

438
00:26:59,619 --> 00:26:57,950
trackable ground and would never

439
00:27:04,019 --> 00:26:59,629
reappear anymore

440
00:27:08,769 --> 00:27:04,029
so we hypothesize that he was popping in

441
00:27:11,590 --> 00:27:08,779
to our reality from somewhere else at

442
00:27:15,249 --> 00:27:11,600
the same time this is really not a new

443
00:27:18,009 --> 00:27:15,259
theory the Navajos themselves believe

444
00:27:21,970 --> 00:27:18,019
that they came in their creation story

445
00:27:24,070 --> 00:27:21,980
along with many other Indian tribes that

446
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:24,080
they came from somewhere else

447
00:27:30,970 --> 00:27:28,369
and they in the case of a Navajos they

448
00:27:35,220 --> 00:27:30,980
came through several different worlds a

449
00:27:39,669 --> 00:27:35,230
world of darkness an aquatic world a

450
00:27:42,729 --> 00:27:39,679
world of insects and giants and coming

451
00:27:47,619 --> 00:27:42,739
out into this world which they said that

452
00:27:52,930 --> 00:27:47,629
they climbed through a hole from one

453
00:27:54,999 --> 00:27:52,940
place to the other by Reed and managed

454
00:27:59,649 --> 00:27:55,009
to get all the people into the what they

455
00:28:01,359 --> 00:27:59,659
call the shining world now so we started

456
00:28:05,710 --> 00:28:01,369
looking at all this and it's the only

457
00:28:10,060 --> 00:28:05,720
real thing that explains how UFOs can

458
00:28:13,989 --> 00:28:10,070
suddenly seem to pop in to our plane of

459
00:28:21,430 --> 00:28:13,999
existence and then just either disappear

460
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:21,440
or fade you can't see him anymore right

461
00:28:30,820 --> 00:28:25,369
so despite worldwide radar systems and

462
00:28:35,550 --> 00:28:30,830
Earth orbiting satellites UFO s the UFO

463
00:28:38,860 --> 00:28:35,560
phenomenon appears to leave little to no

464
00:28:42,010 --> 00:28:38,870
well the UFO phenomenon does leave a

465
00:28:43,030 --> 00:28:42,020
tower evidence when they're here in

466
00:28:48,490 --> 00:28:43,040
distress

467
00:28:52,060 --> 00:28:48,500
but despite radar equipment we don't

468
00:28:58,780 --> 00:28:52,070
always catch him I guess isn't right

469
00:29:03,010 --> 00:28:58,790
they during the oh one was a 1970s the

470
00:29:05,890 --> 00:29:03,020
the government actually had a program

471
00:29:11,530 --> 00:29:05,900
based out of Colorado where they were

472
00:29:14,470 --> 00:29:11,540
actually scrambling fighter jets there's

473
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:14,480
a very interesting book called shoot

474
00:29:22,150 --> 00:29:17,810
them down I don't remember who it was

475
00:29:25,450 --> 00:29:22,160
written by after Frank Ficino Lisa's

476
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:25,460
last name the but the book details how

477
00:29:33,510 --> 00:29:29,570
they were flying these missions in an

478
00:29:37,270 --> 00:29:33,520
attempt to shoot these UFOs down and

479
00:29:41,350 --> 00:29:37,280
sometime later on the the pilots became

480
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:41,360
basically basket cases had to be taken

481
00:29:48,550 --> 00:29:44,890
off of fly status because they were so

482
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:48,560
overwhelmed by this we saw the same

483
00:29:56,350 --> 00:29:52,370
thing in the Phoenix lights case two

484
00:29:59,860 --> 00:29:56,360
f-16 eagles were scrambled when they got

485
00:30:04,540 --> 00:29:59,870
back one of the pilots literally had to

486
00:30:07,210 --> 00:30:04,550
be picked up and pulled out of this

487
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:07,220
airplane because he was in such a deep

488
00:30:14,260 --> 00:30:12,650
state of shock somebody made a phone

489
00:30:16,300 --> 00:30:14,270
call and said they're going to lock the

490
00:30:19,870 --> 00:30:16,310
base down and order us not to talk about

491
00:30:23,260 --> 00:30:19,880
it so I'm going to make this call now so

492
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:23,270
there's that there were two two planes

493
00:30:29,290 --> 00:30:25,610
that were scrambled and encountered this

494
00:30:32,770 --> 00:30:29,300
object at 10,000 feet or as in military

495
00:30:36,190 --> 00:30:32,780
parlance angels can

496
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:36,200
okay I just let our listeners know which

497
00:30:41,050 --> 00:30:39,530
book John was referencing and Frank

498
00:30:43,780 --> 00:30:41,060
actually said the name of the author of

499
00:30:45,820 --> 00:30:43,790
the book but I don't think anybody and

500
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:45,830
that is the title is shoot them down

501
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:48,530
just as John said the rest of the title

502
00:30:54,490 --> 00:30:51,410
is a flying saucer or worse of 1952

503
00:30:59,500 --> 00:30:54,500
which was written by Frank C fascino jr.

504
00:31:01,930 --> 00:30:59,510
which is FPS thi and oh dear and the

505
00:31:03,490 --> 00:31:01,940
foreword was written by nuclear

506
00:31:10,900 --> 00:31:03,500
physicist Stanton Friedman

507
00:31:15,430 --> 00:31:10,910
was gonna ask you John the problem what

508
00:31:18,730 --> 00:31:15,440
possible imagining things about the UFO

509
00:31:22,990 --> 00:31:18,740
phenomenon are the astronomical

510
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:23,000
distances these crafts may have to

511
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:26,930
traverse in order to get us so are they

512
00:31:31,930 --> 00:31:30,410
living that's why they're always here

513
00:31:34,030 --> 00:31:31,940
where do you think they're going

514
00:31:36,820 --> 00:31:34,040
interstellar or they're going long

515
00:31:40,300 --> 00:31:36,830
distances to make it to our planet

516
00:31:43,750 --> 00:31:40,310
what's going on we think that they're

517
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:43,760
pan-dimensional beings that they exist

518
00:31:47,970 --> 00:31:46,370
in a different dimension that coexist

519
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:47,980
with our own

520
00:31:55,540 --> 00:31:51,650
we don't see them because they actually

521
00:31:59,890 --> 00:31:55,550
exist at a different frequency than we

522
00:32:04,540 --> 00:31:59,900
do and there's a lot of information out

523
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:04,550
there as far as frequencies being used

524
00:32:12,310 --> 00:32:07,130
such as the Philadelphia Experiment that

525
00:32:16,690 --> 00:32:12,320
was using sound generators or electrical

526
00:32:18,550 --> 00:32:16,700
generators to change frequency so

527
00:32:20,980 --> 00:32:18,560
there's there's a lot of research still

528
00:32:23,860 --> 00:32:20,990
being done there's they're using

529
00:32:27,610 --> 00:32:23,870
frequencies for riot control that are

530
00:32:31,540 --> 00:32:27,620
available to police departments that'll

531
00:32:35,010 --> 00:32:31,550
make you sick and as we know there are

532
00:32:38,650 --> 00:32:35,020
these attacks of US embassy personnel

533
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:38,660
using different types of frequencies

534
00:32:46,620 --> 00:32:41,610
that's causing brain damage

535
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:46,630
okay so I understood and I heard what

536
00:33:01,560 --> 00:32:51,450
you said but do you think some of this

537
00:33:06,510 --> 00:33:01,570
topic not time travel at all it could

538
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:06,520
very well be we like to think that we're

539
00:33:12,510 --> 00:33:08,770
the smartest kids up the block because

540
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:12,520
we have digital launches and you know we

541
00:33:19,310 --> 00:33:17,050
really are just because we don't have

542
00:33:23,250 --> 00:33:19,320
time travel doesn't mean that other

543
00:33:27,020 --> 00:33:23,260
places or civilizations already have it

544
00:33:29,910 --> 00:33:27,030
and if you really think about it a

545
00:33:34,710 --> 00:33:29,920
hundred years ago we didn't believe man

546
00:33:36,690 --> 00:33:34,720
could fly you know and then or over a

547
00:33:39,450 --> 00:33:36,700
hundred years ago and then here come the

548
00:33:43,950 --> 00:33:39,460
Wright brothers with their with their

549
00:33:49,170 --> 00:33:43,960
aircraft so it wasn't it was just

550
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:49,180
shortly after that that you know we we

551
00:33:53,940 --> 00:33:51,970
had aircraft and we're flying around and

552
00:33:56,130 --> 00:33:53,950
what's the first thing we did with it we

553
00:34:00,900 --> 00:33:56,140
strapped guns to it and shot each other

554
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:00,910
down in World War one I really think

555
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:02,770
that we have a long way to go as a

556
00:34:11,940 --> 00:34:08,010
species that were we way too violent and

557
00:34:16,380 --> 00:34:11,950
you know our idea of politics is to kill

558
00:34:20,700 --> 00:34:16,390
and you know therefore win you know my

559
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:20,710
own people on both the Plains tribes and

560
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:26,770
the Navajos were subjected to a period

561
00:34:34,380 --> 00:34:31,210
of literal genocide where they tried to

562
00:34:40,399 --> 00:34:34,390
destroy us as a people and yet we

563
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:40,409
survived so you know I don't think we're

564
00:34:45,270 --> 00:34:43,450
we're in a position to learn about time

565
00:34:47,580 --> 00:34:45,280
travel or any of this thing I think

566
00:34:51,149 --> 00:34:47,590
aliens have probably loved to giveth

567
00:34:54,060 --> 00:34:51,159
give us all this stuff that we would be

568
00:34:56,250 --> 00:34:54,070
very irresponsible with it

569
00:34:59,040 --> 00:34:56,260
right it would be like pearls before

570
00:35:00,800 --> 00:34:59,050
swine so I have one question to ask you

571
00:35:03,980 --> 00:35:00,810
and then another one right after that

572
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:03,990
absolutely yeah the question I have is

573
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:06,010
let me go ahead and preface my question

574
00:35:12,030 --> 00:35:07,210
with this statement

575
00:35:15,030 --> 00:35:12,040
NASA considers the study of I I think

576
00:35:17,340 --> 00:35:15,040
the et topic it's irrelevant

577
00:35:21,270 --> 00:35:17,350
because of the number of possible false

578
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:21,280
leads that study or research on it would

579
00:35:28,500 --> 00:35:24,810
provide and the limited amount of usable

580
00:35:32,100 --> 00:35:28,510
scientific data that it it it it could

581
00:35:35,030 --> 00:35:32,110
not yield so why do you think the

582
00:35:39,060 --> 00:35:35,040
government the US government felt like

583
00:35:43,100 --> 00:35:39,070
yourself and span Milford jr. could

584
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:43,110
yield anything of any value

585
00:35:51,180 --> 00:35:45,850
regarding the topics that you all had to

586
00:35:54,660 --> 00:35:51,190
research well we know that there's a lot

587
00:35:57,540 --> 00:35:54,670
of curiosity by the government during

588
00:36:00,150 --> 00:35:57,550
several investigations we had over

589
00:36:03,870 --> 00:36:00,160
flights of black helicopters that were

590
00:36:07,470 --> 00:36:03,880
unmarked that flew over the areas where

591
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:07,480
we had key active cases take place

592
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:16,450
we had military John you break it up a

593
00:36:19,860 --> 00:36:17,530
little bit there I don't know if you can

594
00:36:22,710 --> 00:36:19,870
hear me or not personnel that were

595
00:36:26,790 --> 00:36:22,720
really out of place and we've trained

596
00:36:32,430 --> 00:36:26,800
with with a lot of Berber grayza force

597
00:36:33,810 --> 00:36:32,440
people maybe seals PGA's just all

598
00:36:38,220 --> 00:36:33,820
different kinds of Special Forces

599
00:36:40,380 --> 00:36:38,230
operators and in weapons schools and so

600
00:36:45,270 --> 00:36:40,390
we know the type we know what they look

601
00:36:49,620 --> 00:36:45,280
like how they act how they dress even

602
00:36:51,660 --> 00:36:49,630
our Secret Service people and we saw

603
00:36:56,750 --> 00:36:51,670
quite a few of those come onto the

604
00:37:01,290 --> 00:36:59,640
interject John but when I had the

605
00:37:03,860 --> 00:37:01,300
privilege of interviewing you very

606
00:37:06,380 --> 00:37:03,870
briefly at the Phoenix lights

607
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:06,390
events that dr. Lynn khatai held in

608
00:37:12,500 --> 00:37:09,690
Phoenix Arizona last year you were

609
00:37:16,010 --> 00:37:12,510
talking about this topic and it is so

610
00:37:17,530 --> 00:37:16,020
fascinating can you can you just share a

611
00:37:20,780 --> 00:37:17,540
little bit more information about how

612
00:37:22,820 --> 00:37:20,790
there were government personnel from

613
00:37:26,150 --> 00:37:22,830
various capacities you know different

614
00:37:29,990 --> 00:37:26,160
job titles going onto the reservation

615
00:37:35,660 --> 00:37:30,000
study the very topics you in and we're

616
00:37:39,170 --> 00:37:35,670
signed or preservation well first off we

617
00:37:42,700 --> 00:37:39,180
weren't really researching it per se we

618
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:42,710
were investigating it because we had a

619
00:37:49,910 --> 00:37:45,810
victim somebody that said hey this is

620
00:37:51,470 --> 00:37:49,920
happening can you help me and we had

621
00:37:53,270 --> 00:37:51,480
some people that were very very

622
00:37:57,290 --> 00:37:53,280
frightened especially when it came to

623
00:38:00,110 --> 00:37:57,300
Bigfoot cases and so part of her job was

624
00:38:02,390 --> 00:38:00,120
to go and conduct a professional

625
00:38:05,870 --> 00:38:02,400
investigation and let them know that

626
00:38:08,060 --> 00:38:05,880
somebody cared enough about them to come

627
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:08,070
out there especially when it's a grandma

628
00:38:16,070 --> 00:38:12,930
and a grandpa but yeah we we had quite a

629
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:16,080
quite a bit in fact after one of our

630
00:38:23,980 --> 00:38:19,650
major cases involving a UFO landing we

631
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:23,990
an occupant sighting we actually had a

632
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:26,850
marquee on the local hotel there in

633
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:29,930
Window Rock that said welcome NASA

634
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:35,010
scientists we contacted MUFON who

635
00:38:41,180 --> 00:38:38,130
contacted some people they know and we

636
00:38:44,720 --> 00:38:41,190
found out that there was no NASA

637
00:38:48,020 --> 00:38:44,730
scientist convention on the reservation

638
00:38:52,550 --> 00:38:48,030
and the very next day that Markey was

639
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:52,560
taken down so we know that there was a

640
00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:53,810
lot of interest

641
00:39:01,190 --> 00:38:57,330
we even had government type military

642
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:01,200
type officials showing up at our at our

643
00:39:06,470 --> 00:39:04,050
talks at our at the different

644
00:39:09,170 --> 00:39:06,480
conventions and we got to the point

645
00:39:11,570 --> 00:39:09,180
where they would come in after we

646
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:11,580
started would sit down and with a

647
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:14,130
clipboard and be taking notes and then

648
00:39:16,790 --> 00:39:16,410
they would get up before we finished and

649
00:39:19,790 --> 00:39:16,800
walk

650
00:39:21,860 --> 00:39:19,800
and so we started giving them a shout

651
00:39:26,330 --> 00:39:21,870
out to any military personnel that were

652
00:39:28,220 --> 00:39:26,340
there to take notes on us kiss our way

653
00:39:28,970 --> 00:39:28,230
of acknowledging that that this was

654
00:39:31,910 --> 00:39:28,980
going on

655
00:39:34,340 --> 00:39:31,920
right that was your nod to them what it

656
00:39:37,730 --> 00:39:34,350
was also going to ask you wouldn't it be

657
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:37,740
true to say that you saw possibly Green

658
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:41,010
Beret or if you want to use the term men

659
00:39:45,020 --> 00:39:42,930
in black or whatever terms you might use

660
00:39:46,220 --> 00:39:45,030
to describe some of the government

661
00:39:48,530 --> 00:39:46,230
personnel that were out on the

662
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:48,540
reservation with binoculars or various

663
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:50,690
types of equipment to actually try and

664
00:39:56,330 --> 00:39:53,970
capture or study the things that you and

665
00:40:01,190 --> 00:39:56,340
Stan Milford investigated is that

666
00:40:05,590 --> 00:40:01,200
correct well we actually did work a

667
00:40:08,540 --> 00:40:05,600
couple of different cases directly with

668
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:08,550
Bigelow Aerospace research investigators

669
00:40:17,930 --> 00:40:12,450
and they told us that Bob Bigelow at the

670
00:40:20,780 --> 00:40:17,940
time were was involved in aerospace he

671
00:40:24,290 --> 00:40:20,790
was building the habitat modules for the

672
00:40:28,190 --> 00:40:24,300
space station that were made out of

673
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:28,200
Kevlar for micro meteorite strikes and

674
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:30,690
they would pull these things up and take

675
00:40:35,330 --> 00:40:32,970
them up to the space dish and attach

676
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:35,340
them and then here the mountain they

677
00:40:43,010 --> 00:40:40,170
tear up just like a balloon and so he

678
00:40:47,420 --> 00:40:43,020
has quite a big complex down to Las

679
00:40:50,780 --> 00:40:47,430
Vegas and he had hired Tech's special

680
00:40:56,860 --> 00:40:50,790
operators to to do his investigations

681
00:41:02,480 --> 00:40:56,870
for him as we know later on much of that

682
00:41:04,910 --> 00:41:02,490
22 to 24 million dollars that was put

683
00:41:07,190 --> 00:41:04,920
into the aerial threat identification

684
00:41:10,100 --> 00:41:07,200
program that the US government ran for

685
00:41:15,410 --> 00:41:10,110
about six years a lot of that went to

686
00:41:17,870 --> 00:41:15,420
Bigelow Aerospace research okay yeah we

687
00:41:21,590 --> 00:41:17,880
actually had a privilege of interviewing

688
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:21,600
John Alexander Hugh head he headed the a

689
00:41:25,529 --> 00:41:23,970
project for a Bigelow at skinwalker

690
00:41:27,509 --> 00:41:25,539
ranch

691
00:41:31,109 --> 00:41:27,519
which anyway you know about that project

692
00:41:35,279 --> 00:41:31,119
very well wanted to move on to something

693
00:41:38,639 --> 00:41:35,289
else and ask you I have to to strange

694
00:41:43,919 --> 00:41:38,649
questions ask you let me go in let me

695
00:41:47,429 --> 00:41:43,929
start with this is there's an individual

696
00:41:50,999 --> 00:41:47,439
ice boat to recently them who is very

697
00:41:52,889 --> 00:41:51,009
high up in folk organization we're gonna

698
00:41:59,579 --> 00:41:52,899
have on our show here pretty soon

699
00:42:05,249 --> 00:41:59,589
I can't he told me that he felt the the

700
00:42:11,089 --> 00:42:05,259
ghost phenomenon ghosts and poltergeist

701
00:42:16,079 --> 00:42:11,099
activity is the result of Technology by

702
00:42:19,229 --> 00:42:16,089
to throw up humans so they do not know

703
00:42:20,309 --> 00:42:19,239
about their presence or if they're being

704
00:42:24,019 --> 00:42:20,319
abducted

705
00:42:30,419 --> 00:42:24,029
what is your input or reaction to that

706
00:42:34,559 --> 00:42:30,429
hypothesis okay are about the haunting

707
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:34,569
phenomenons and we we have investigated

708
00:42:43,229 --> 00:42:39,249
these type of cases they're they're very

709
00:42:47,989 --> 00:42:43,239
very strange they tend to occur mainly

710
00:42:55,229 --> 00:42:47,999
around 3 to 3 10 a.m. in the morning and

711
00:42:59,279 --> 00:42:55,239
we we believe that and this is just our

712
00:43:03,329 --> 00:42:59,289
opinion so there there's not a whole lot

713
00:43:12,479 --> 00:43:03,339
of scientific data backing it up but our

714
00:43:15,959 --> 00:43:12,489
opinion is that these spectral apprecia

715
00:43:23,729 --> 00:43:15,969
my guess is what you would call them if

716
00:43:28,069 --> 00:43:23,739
in our thinking when you do all of us

717
00:43:31,639 --> 00:43:28,079
are composed of energy of some kind and

718
00:43:34,620 --> 00:43:31,649
when we die that energy goes somewhere

719
00:43:38,140 --> 00:43:34,630
those electrical impulses everything

720
00:43:41,579 --> 00:43:38,150
that makes us us goes somewhere

721
00:43:44,739 --> 00:43:41,589
and what we've seen is that this these

722
00:43:45,549 --> 00:43:44,749
energies can attach themselves to

723
00:43:54,720 --> 00:43:45,559
objects

724
00:43:59,700 --> 00:43:54,730
or geologic things like rocks and and

725
00:44:04,480 --> 00:43:59,710
continue to reside there in some way the

726
00:44:11,259 --> 00:44:07,299
we had one building that was built back

727
00:44:16,299 --> 00:44:11,269
in the 1920s and there was a lot of

728
00:44:20,589 --> 00:44:16,309
activity taking place at this place we

729
00:44:22,630 --> 00:44:20,599
saw the like laptop batteries flying

730
00:44:25,809 --> 00:44:22,640
across the room backing into the

731
00:44:29,730 --> 00:44:25,819
opposite wall Cheers moving by

732
00:44:34,210 --> 00:44:29,740
themselves people would hear screams

733
00:44:36,009 --> 00:44:34,220
people would be called on the phone at 3

734
00:44:40,900 --> 00:44:36,019
o'clock in the morning with their calls

735
00:44:42,549 --> 00:44:40,910
originating from that office and during

736
00:44:48,009 --> 00:44:42,559
that time when Stan was doing the

737
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:48,019
investigation he had 64 coins

738
00:44:57,539 --> 00:44:51,890
nickels dimes quarters pennies over a

739
00:45:00,460 --> 00:44:57,549
two-night period from the from thin air

740
00:45:07,630 --> 00:45:00,470
come flying across the room actually hit

741
00:45:10,059 --> 00:45:07,640
people bounce roll spin and lend when

742
00:45:12,489 --> 00:45:10,069
they first started appearing he called

743
00:45:15,870 --> 00:45:12,499
me and he says what I do and I says well

744
00:45:18,220 --> 00:45:15,880
you're an investigator you have to

745
00:45:23,140 --> 00:45:18,230
photograph each one of them measure from

746
00:45:26,410 --> 00:45:23,150
two walls where it landed document

747
00:45:32,769 --> 00:45:26,420
everything and collect them at the end

748
00:45:34,839 --> 00:45:32,779
of the process we found out that every

749
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:34,849
single one of these coins even though

750
00:45:45,309 --> 00:45:38,410
they bounced rolled and spun all landed

751
00:45:48,279 --> 00:45:45,319
heads up in our estimation as

752
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:48,289
statistical impossibility that

753
00:45:55,300 --> 00:45:51,050
phenomenon has continued

754
00:45:58,680 --> 00:45:55,310
since then around around scam and when

755
00:46:01,510 --> 00:45:58,690
when I'm with him it happened those two

756
00:46:03,610 --> 00:46:01,520
you breath it's kind of followed us

757
00:46:05,370 --> 00:46:03,620
you're breaking up a little bit I did

758
00:46:08,490 --> 00:46:05,380
hear that last part what was this dis

759
00:46:10,510 --> 00:46:08,500
statistical improbability of the heads

760
00:46:16,060 --> 00:46:10,520
falling on heads the whole time

761
00:46:19,990 --> 00:46:16,070
regarding the coins sixty-four coins

762
00:46:21,310 --> 00:46:20,000
would land head stop what was what was

763
00:46:26,610 --> 00:46:21,320
the number for the statistical

764
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:26,620
improbability of it sixty-four coins

765
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:35,410
landing heads up should be roughly 32 32

766
00:46:41,350 --> 00:46:39,050
right okay so moving on there was a

767
00:46:44,290 --> 00:46:41,360
question I had to ask you that I've I've

768
00:46:47,230 --> 00:46:44,300
kind of been burning to ask you and that

769
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:47,240
is so I'm gonna share a little bit of

770
00:46:52,270 --> 00:46:49,010
history and then I'll ask you the

771
00:46:57,960 --> 00:46:52,280
question the history is that on November

772
00:47:04,240 --> 00:46:57,970
27 1978 a lieutenant colonel Larry Coyne

773
00:47:07,870 --> 00:47:04,250
along with with J Allen Hynek address

774
00:47:10,300 --> 00:47:07,880
the UN Committee for proposal to appoint

775
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:10,310
expert group to study the nature and

776
00:47:16,990 --> 00:47:13,970
origin of UFOs and this was basically

777
00:47:18,910 --> 00:47:17,000
for in the country for native goes that

778
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:18,920
the Secretary General of point of group

779
00:47:27,130 --> 00:47:24,770
of experts to the UN regarding the

780
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:27,140
peaceful uses of outer space to divide

781
00:47:31,630 --> 00:47:28,970
the guidelines for the on study of the

782
00:47:34,630 --> 00:47:31,640
nature and origins of UFOs and related

783
00:47:39,130 --> 00:47:34,640
phenomena and that that resolution the

784
00:47:43,330 --> 00:47:39,140
proposal of it was shot down my question

785
00:47:45,010 --> 00:47:43,340
is isn't it time I know it's a leading

786
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:45,020
question but don't you think it's high

787
00:47:49,750 --> 00:47:47,450
time that somebody makes another

788
00:47:53,110 --> 00:47:49,760
proposal to the UN for the study of

789
00:47:57,060 --> 00:47:53,120
nature of the UFO phenomenon you know a

790
00:48:01,980 --> 00:47:57,070
crack from all different backgrounds

791
00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:01,990
yes I think that that actually needs to

792
00:48:08,940 --> 00:48:06,130
be done what they'll do is they'll form

793
00:48:11,310 --> 00:48:08,950
a committee and as you know and I know

794
00:48:14,190 --> 00:48:11,320
that when you form a committee nothing

795
00:48:15,470 --> 00:48:14,200
will ever get done and so I think it's

796
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:15,480
going to get trapped forever in

797
00:48:23,610 --> 00:48:19,930
bureaucracy because it thinking about it

798
00:48:26,850 --> 00:48:23,620
we would want to militarize I mean we

799
00:48:30,540 --> 00:48:26,860
have a United States space force now we

800
00:48:35,580 --> 00:48:30,550
want to militarize space and the first

801
00:48:39,300 --> 00:48:35,590
one to do that is going to have a huge

802
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:39,310
advantage so you know this is the

803
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:41,650
direction we're heading

804
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:43,810
I don't think there's there's going to

805
00:48:49,950 --> 00:48:47,530
be peace anywhere and that maybe this is

806
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:49,960
why the aliens don't have contact with

807
00:48:58,500 --> 00:48:53,850
us because we are this violent species

808
00:49:00,390 --> 00:48:58,510
that they know about they study us and

809
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:00,400
say okay kids this is what you don't

810
00:49:09,240 --> 00:49:07,570
want to be you know okay I just wanted

811
00:49:11,190 --> 00:49:09,250
to bring up something to your attention

812
00:49:14,250 --> 00:49:11,200
here and you may have already heard

813
00:49:18,300 --> 00:49:14,260
about this but in house a close

814
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:18,310
encounter happened regarding Josh

815
00:49:23,850 --> 00:49:20,410
Brinkley Daniel Lucero who were two

816
00:49:28,290 --> 00:49:23,860
hunters and that happened late last year

817
00:49:32,060 --> 00:49:28,300
and the issue said that they were

818
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:32,070
setting up I guess they were hunting and

819
00:49:36,870 --> 00:49:35,050
along of the along a certain tree line

820
00:49:39,450 --> 00:49:36,880
on different sides of a field

821
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:39,460
they sat waited while they wanted to

822
00:49:49,290 --> 00:49:45,010
hunt they saw a very strange scene one

823
00:49:54,420 --> 00:49:49,300
of them actually saw I guess a table

824
00:49:56,250 --> 00:49:54,430
that was set out and a tent do you do

825
00:49:59,490 --> 00:49:56,260
you ever hear of people talking about

826
00:50:02,670 --> 00:49:59,500
because we've interviewed Melinda Leslie

827
00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:02,680
and she's talked about her industrial

828
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:06,610
complex being involved along with East

829
00:50:10,980 --> 00:50:09,610
regarding hence being set up and able to

830
00:50:15,780 --> 00:50:10,990
put out

831
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:15,790
to study humans now whether the veracity

832
00:50:23,579 --> 00:50:19,690
things are good or not I wanted to know

833
00:50:28,950 --> 00:50:23,589
whether you've heard enough tents being

834
00:50:33,290 --> 00:50:28,960
set up tables being set out but IEP I

835
00:50:37,500 --> 00:50:33,300
have I have heard very little about that

836
00:50:43,430 --> 00:50:37,510
I know the abduction phenomenon is real

837
00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:43,440
and we don't know why

838
00:50:51,599 --> 00:50:47,650
you know the eb e ZT whatever you want

839
00:50:54,570 --> 00:50:51,609
to call them are here a lot of this is

840
00:50:58,280 --> 00:50:54,580
comparable to what happened when the

841
00:51:02,190 --> 00:50:58,290
Native Americans first encountered

842
00:51:04,500 --> 00:51:02,200
angles from another Shore they all came

843
00:51:12,150 --> 00:51:04,510
for different reasons some to postulate

844
00:51:15,210 --> 00:51:12,160
and bring Christianity some to you know

845
00:51:20,430 --> 00:51:15,220
bring collect tobacco's some for potash

846
00:51:23,329 --> 00:51:20,440
some for mass chambers some for gold so

847
00:51:27,079 --> 00:51:23,339
you have all these different

848
00:51:29,339 --> 00:51:27,089
nationalities coming to the Americas

849
00:51:31,770 --> 00:51:29,349
looking for a whole lot of different

850
00:51:36,060 --> 00:51:31,780
stuff and we could be seeing the same

851
00:51:38,130 --> 00:51:36,070
thing with the with the alien whether

852
00:51:40,829 --> 00:51:38,140
he's coming from a different dimension a

853
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:40,839
different time or a different

854
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:44,410
interstellar coordinate that each one

855
00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:46,290
may be here for a different reason

856
00:51:52,500 --> 00:51:49,690
okay well I'm I'm gonna read a quote by

857
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:52,510
one of these hunters and then I was

858
00:51:58,230 --> 00:51:53,970
going to ask you a question about it

859
00:52:00,270 --> 00:51:58,240
okay said that by the way just so you

860
00:52:02,220 --> 00:52:00,280
know they actually both work on movie

861
00:52:04,410 --> 00:52:02,230
sets and as you know in New Mexico we

862
00:52:06,570 --> 00:52:04,420
had Breaking Bad for you know we had a

863
00:52:09,180 --> 00:52:06,580
we've had a lot of movies and TV series

864
00:52:11,430 --> 00:52:09,190
in New Mexico these guys who actually

865
00:52:14,310 --> 00:52:11,440
work in that industry so they had seen

866
00:52:16,020 --> 00:52:14,320
movie sets before and they said that

867
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:16,030
they first saw thought it was a movie

868
00:52:20,970 --> 00:52:18,490
base camp and they said it's this big

869
00:52:23,089 --> 00:52:20,980
tent structure like a circus tent 50 to

870
00:52:25,670 --> 00:52:23,099
60 feet tall

871
00:52:27,439 --> 00:52:25,680
analeptic was this long building almost

872
00:52:30,349 --> 00:52:27,449
like what she would build for an archery

873
00:52:33,199 --> 00:52:30,359
lane for target practice it was a third

874
00:52:35,329 --> 00:52:33,209
of the height but really long maybe a

875
00:52:37,489 --> 00:52:35,339
couple hundred feet they were about a

876
00:52:39,019 --> 00:52:37,499
quarter of a mile away but he could not

877
00:52:42,170 --> 00:52:39,029
see the bottom of the structure they

878
00:52:43,999 --> 00:52:42,180
were in the mountains and one of them

879
00:52:46,459 --> 00:52:44,009
asks the other is this a base camp for

880
00:52:48,859 --> 00:52:46,469
free are they building an alien ship set

881
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:48,869
and then when they continued up the hill

882
00:52:55,789 --> 00:52:52,130
they said within just eight seconds a

883
00:52:59,930 --> 00:52:55,799
whole thing was gone so I was going to

884
00:53:04,449 --> 00:52:59,940
ask you because we keep talking about

885
00:53:08,539 --> 00:53:04,459
how it can triple the UFO phenomenon is

886
00:53:11,029 --> 00:53:08,549
can et is really bleak things in and out

887
00:53:18,890 --> 00:53:11,039
of existence no matter how complex the

888
00:53:21,430 --> 00:53:18,900
structure is that they have it would

889
00:53:28,579 --> 00:53:24,709
it would depend on the strength of the

890
00:53:33,279 --> 00:53:28,589
field that they're using I know that in

891
00:53:36,829 --> 00:53:33,289
a lot of UFO sightings we've had the

892
00:53:39,709 --> 00:53:36,839
bishops are always described as being a

893
00:53:41,660 --> 00:53:39,719
little bit on the blurry side like

894
00:53:47,569 --> 00:53:41,670
there's some kind of a field around the

895
00:53:51,650 --> 00:53:47,579
ship and you know it's anything's

896
00:53:53,839 --> 00:53:51,660
possible we just need to open our minds

897
00:53:58,819 --> 00:53:53,849
to the fact that there's some unusual

898
00:54:02,390 --> 00:53:58,829
stuff going on and our government if if

899
00:54:06,019 --> 00:54:02,400
they're not involved with it can't do

900
00:54:07,519 --> 00:54:06,029
anything about it before we wind down

901
00:54:10,479 --> 00:54:07,529
the center view because we're coming

902
00:54:13,039 --> 00:54:10,489
near the end of it I wanted to ask you

903
00:54:16,309 --> 00:54:13,049
do you believe anyone or anything

904
00:54:19,039 --> 00:54:16,319
regarding an organization any government

905
00:54:21,489 --> 00:54:19,049
an entity a group or individual is in

906
00:54:24,859 --> 00:54:21,499
possession of any exotic alloys

907
00:54:31,940 --> 00:54:24,869
metamaterials or UAP fragments of any

908
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:35,060
yeah there's there's things out there we

909
00:54:41,930 --> 00:54:39,690
have no idea about and you hear a lot of

910
00:54:46,790 --> 00:54:41,940
people talking I've handled some of that

911
00:54:50,810 --> 00:54:46,800
material that's that supposedly came

912
00:54:53,750 --> 00:54:50,820
from the plains of san agustin or the

913
00:54:58,820 --> 00:54:53,760
what it's commonly known as the Roswell

914
00:55:03,050 --> 00:54:58,830
UFO crash site at the Brasil ranch in

915
00:55:08,660 --> 00:55:03,060
New Mexico these were collected much

916
00:55:13,940 --> 00:55:08,670
later boy yeah I think we have a lot of

917
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:13,950
that material already ok and my last one

918
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:15,810
of my last questions you I just have two

919
00:55:22,610 --> 00:55:19,850
questions left is did the December 16th

920
00:55:24,230 --> 00:55:22,620
2017 New York Times article titled

921
00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:24,240
glowing auras and black money

922
00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:27,410
the Pentagon's mysterious UFO program by

923
00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:30,210
Cooper Blumenthal and Leslie Kean mean

924
00:55:35,990 --> 00:55:33,570
anything to you did have an impact on

925
00:55:37,820 --> 00:55:36,000
you know do you believe it was a form of

926
00:55:40,810 --> 00:55:37,830
soft disclosure by the US government

927
00:55:44,750 --> 00:55:40,820
claiming that there was an official UFO

928
00:55:47,390 --> 00:55:44,760
project a government project allowed to

929
00:55:48,770 --> 00:55:47,400
study the UFO phenomena for five years I

930
00:55:50,270 --> 00:55:48,780
believe by the way wasn't just five

931
00:55:53,210 --> 00:55:50,280
years I think they've always studied it

932
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:53,220
but do you think that art was a form of

933
00:55:59,210 --> 00:55:55,970
official disclosure by the government I

934
00:56:02,360 --> 00:55:59,220
think my personal feeling is that

935
00:56:07,010 --> 00:56:02,370
they're leaking stuff very slowly to

936
00:56:09,490 --> 00:56:07,020
acclimate us to these these facts I

937
00:56:13,460 --> 00:56:09,500
think there's always going to be some

938
00:56:16,690 --> 00:56:13,470
level of doubt because we've been told

939
00:56:20,300 --> 00:56:16,700
all this time to doubt this stuff I

940
00:56:21,830 --> 00:56:20,310
think that there's other black programs

941
00:56:26,360 --> 00:56:21,840
that are in death currently

942
00:56:28,700 --> 00:56:26,370
investigating this phenomena we just

943
00:56:32,300 --> 00:56:28,710
haven't heard of them yet or discovered

944
00:56:34,670 --> 00:56:32,310
them yet okay before I ask this other

945
00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:34,680
question I guess I do not want to forget

946
00:56:39,560 --> 00:56:37,650
to do this I want to remind or let our

947
00:56:41,420 --> 00:56:39,570
listeners know if they need to contact

948
00:56:44,240 --> 00:56:41,430
trample jock or stand

949
00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:44,250
for the email you gave me for the

950
00:56:51,260 --> 00:56:47,970
general population and this was also on

951
00:56:53,780 --> 00:56:51,270
the McMenamin ville UFO festival slide

952
00:56:55,609 --> 00:56:53,790
that you all had regarding the email

953
00:56:57,770 --> 00:56:55,619
address may I give that email address

954
00:57:03,069 --> 00:56:57,780
out that you had at the McMinn and bill

955
00:57:07,490 --> 00:57:03,079
this bill UFO festival conference yes

956
00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:07,500
okay it's paranormal Rangers and I'll go

957
00:57:12,049 --> 00:57:09,690
over this again a few times folks it's

958
00:57:15,740 --> 00:57:12,059
paranormal Rangers eight six five one

959
00:57:18,650 --> 00:57:15,750
five gmail.com so it's paranormal in the

960
00:57:20,900 --> 00:57:18,660
singular not plural paranormal Rangers

961
00:57:24,620 --> 00:57:20,910
which is plural so paranormal Rangers

962
00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:24,630
eight six five one five at gmail.com

963
00:57:28,099 --> 00:57:26,490
I wanted to know I'm gonna ask you a

964
00:57:31,430 --> 00:57:28,109
question that I asked dr. Michael

965
00:57:35,450 --> 00:57:31,440
comment of masters who's a professor

966
00:57:37,940 --> 00:57:35,460
regarding a anthropology and he wrote a

967
00:57:40,250 --> 00:57:37,950
book hello they think it's IFOS it has a

968
00:57:42,740 --> 00:57:40,260
very long title but it's uh he believes

969
00:57:45,380 --> 00:57:42,750
the hypothesis that ETS are us from the

970
00:57:49,460 --> 00:57:45,390
future but anyway what I had asked him

971
00:57:52,789 --> 00:57:49,470
is if you came a cup across you see two

972
00:57:55,640 --> 00:57:52,799
were abducting people in in the forest

973
00:57:58,789 --> 00:57:55,650
and you had all of your hunter here or

974
00:58:01,670 --> 00:57:58,799
your your officer gear on you meeting

975
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:01,680
guns on you what would be your first

976
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:03,930
reaction what would you do if you saw

977
00:58:12,740 --> 00:58:09,930
them abduct left boy that's a tough one

978
00:58:17,740 --> 00:58:12,750
as a law enforcement officer you're

979
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:17,750
there to protect life and property and

980
00:58:24,410 --> 00:58:20,970
the phenomenon itself you know doesn't

981
00:58:26,750 --> 00:58:24,420
necessarily preclude that you're you're

982
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:26,760
in danger of death because it seems like

983
00:58:34,819 --> 00:58:30,890
everybody's being abducted in return

984
00:58:38,500 --> 00:58:34,829
however that being said you would try to

985
00:58:41,750 --> 00:58:38,510
I think I would try to intervene somehow

986
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:41,760
maybe not with a firearm because

987
00:58:49,190 --> 00:58:43,770
shooting might not be the best thing to

988
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:49,200
do but try to try to at least distract

989
00:58:55,260 --> 00:58:52,890
or create a distraction that would allow

990
00:58:57,480 --> 00:58:55,270
some of those people to get away

991
00:58:59,160 --> 00:58:57,490
yeah I figure if they could be millions

992
00:59:01,320 --> 00:58:59,170
of years ahead in their technology a

993
00:59:03,030 --> 00:59:01,330
guns probably not going to they probably

994
00:59:08,310 --> 00:59:03,040
anticipate things like that anyway from

995
00:59:10,140 --> 00:59:08,320
us humans right that's right okay well I

996
00:59:11,820 --> 00:59:10,150
wanted to thank you very much for having

997
00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:11,830
been on our show today

998
00:59:15,510 --> 00:59:14,170
really am so grateful to have had the

999
00:59:17,520 --> 00:59:15,520
opportunity to interview you and I

1000
00:59:19,530 --> 00:59:17,530
wanted to ask you a question we're going

1001
00:59:21,990 --> 00:59:19,540
to have quite a few panels this year on

1002
00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:22,000
the UFO topic especially regarding

1003
00:59:26,670 --> 00:59:24,330
military and law enforcement personnel

1004
00:59:28,260 --> 00:59:26,680
would you please consider joining us

1005
00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:28,270
again you have in the past already

1006
00:59:36,630 --> 00:59:30,850
believe and this year for various panels

1007
00:59:39,780 --> 00:59:36,640
on that topic yeah that would be pretty

1008
00:59:41,930 --> 00:59:39,790
much a case-by-case basis and it would

1009
00:59:45,620 --> 00:59:41,940
be banned I do a lot of traveling and

1010
00:59:50,030 --> 00:59:45,630
I'm usually in either New Mexico or I

1011
01:00:01,260 --> 00:59:50,040
could be in California it could be a

1012
01:00:04,020 --> 01:00:01,270
Cisco area or or even toward Kansas John

1013
01:00:06,840 --> 01:00:04,030
thanks a lot I sure do appreciate you

1014
01:00:09,690 --> 01:00:06,850
coming on the show and you got that you

1015
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:09,700
got us off to a great start so everybody

1016
01:00:15,930 --> 01:00:12,250
thanks thanks again to John Dover for

1017
01:00:17,640 --> 01:00:15,940
joining us thanks Jane and yeah we'll be

1018
01:00:19,530 --> 01:00:17,650
back out we've got more shows on the way